For years now, Roma – also known as gypsies – have complained they are pariahs in Europe, scorned by the mainstream who call them outsiders or thieves, and refuse to let them live in neighborhoods near them. Even worse, they say, they are discriminated against, their children don’t receive the same education as other European citizens, and they all face prejudice. To find out how they perceive it, New Europe went to the Belgian city of Namur, to meet with a Roma family in the Mediation Center for Travellers in Wallonia, Centre de Mediation des Gens du Voyage en Wallonieme (CMGVW). The organisation, set up in 2003, says its main mission is the social and job support to Travellers and Roma people coming from Central and Eastern Europe. In order to integrate them into society and to provide accurate information, the organisation has mediators.

New Europe’s Tania Tsiora, Magdalena Zackova, and Alia Papageorgiou conducted interviews and research for the interview in cooperation with the European Roma Information Office (ERIO.) It began in a straightforward manner, with the mediator, Islamovski Nebija, acting as a go-between. However, toward the end, the family began talking to each other earnestly in their own language and the talk took on a cheerier tone as they attempted to describe their lives as being nearly idyllic, at odds with how many have otherwise said is the case. The Jovanovic family of six people, living at the Reception Centre, the Red Cross of Belgium - a mother and father and their four children, a pre-adolescent boy and three teenagers, two girls and one boy - talked about their life, having moved from Serbia to Italy and their nomadic existence before settling in Belgium, where they had family who had preceded them. The father,  Jusuf, the mother, Slobodanka, and one of their daughters, Debora told their story.

Jusuf: We had been staying in Italy for nine years and a half. Then we came to Brussels, where we stayed eight years and a half. And it’s been one year we are here in Namur.

Have you applied for asylum in the other countries too? Or only in Belgium?
Jusuf: No, it was the first time. Yes, because you can ask for asylum in only one country. When we came here, we had to find an apartment and school for our kids. At the beginning, I was working for undeclared cash because we are six persons. We had to pay everything for the apartment and also for medicine. Before all medicine which we were buying, were not reimbursable. Now, it’s ok, they do. We have an asylum status and we are waiting for the final answer. We are waiting the documents to become residents in Belgium. The situation is getting better now.

Has it been getting better only in the last years?
Jusuf: No, just the last year that we are living here. Before, for a few months we were living outside. Nobody helped us. But here, even our kids went to register to the school by the first day that we came.
Slobodanka: But for our children, it was really difficult, when they went to school. They were really depressed, when they were coming back from school, because of the behavior of other children.

Did you find other Roma families when you arrived here?
Jusuf: No, we didn’t know anyone at the beginning. We knew only my wife’s sister.
That’s why we came to Belgium
Slobodanka: My sister had told me that we had to make a lot of efforts to obtain asylum in Belgium, but we could become asylum seekers, as they did
Debora: Yes, my father was working for undeclared cash, because it wasn’t only that we had to pay the rent and medicine, but also the inscriptions for our school. Just the apartment was 800 Euro

How was your experience in Italy, because we hear a lot about discrimination of Roma in Italy?
Debora: We were born in Italy and we stayed there till nine years old and a half. Yes, we started going school in Italy
Jusuf: But, in Belgium they helped us more. In Italy we didn’t have anything. No Public Centre of Social Action (CPAS). Although, we have good memories of Italy, because…
Debora: Because, here people are more racists than in Italy. Concerning, especially, the behavior of people in our age
Jusuf: The main difference between here and in Italy is that in Italy was more difficult economically. But, if i speak about the Italian people, they were nice. In addition, they helped us to find a job

How many Roma families also live at the Centre?
Jusuf: five, six families. In total, there are 5,000 people. There are different nationalities. Each nationality has their own culture, different way of living. In the building where we live, there are Roma people from Kosovo and Serbia. But we rarely speak with them. Each person for himself

Would you like to go back to Serbia one day?
Jusuf: No …. we saw with my family a lot of racism. Before, when Tito was governing was not like this. But, after that Yugoslavia was separated and wars started No, we were not happy. No, I don’t want to go back. But, my parents are still there. So, I would like to go to Serbia, but only to visit parents. For me Serbia doesn’t exist
Slobodanka: There are a lot of racists there
Jusuf: At seven o’clock at the afternoon, you can’t go out in Serbia. It’s true, we saw a lot of racism in Serbia, that even here or in Italy, we haven’t seen.

What is the behaviour of people your own age, your classmates towards you? Do you have any social benefits for the school inscriptions?
Debora: First of all, we arrived here last year, on April. They did not allow us to start going to school, only at the end of last year. So, we missed one year in school, because during a few months, we were traveling around to find where to live. Most of the time, schools were really far away from where we were sleeping. When we arrived here last April, we registered and our file was opened and we started at the end of May. Moreover, this year, on September 2008, I missed one month and a half of school. Because, when we are 18 years old, we have to pay 1000 Euro for our registration at the school. Because we don’t have a legal status we have to pay for school. So, you can have a statement of a lack of revenue by CPAS (Public Centre of Social action,) if you don’t have an income. I didn’t like school in Namur. I believe children are really racists. They are criticising a lot. It was never like this in Brussels. Ok, there were a lot of foreigners. We were used to these professors. We were hoping also the same for here, in Namur. There are more Belgians here and they are saying that Roma people have to go back to their countries. I heard them saying: “What are you doing here in our country, what are you searching? You are searching for friends?”

You said that it was never like this in Brussels. What is the difference?
Jusuf: They are more used to foreigners, it’s true but …
Debora: No, it’s not only this. They are saying that we have to behave as Belgians. In Brussels, they never judged us. But, here they are criticising a lot: “Look how Roma are dressed,” “why did you come to Belgium?”And, especially, it’s not easy to say something like this to young people. In my country, I couldn’t say this to others.

How many languages do you speak?
Debora: French, Italian and our language, Serbian. French very good. It’s normal. We have been here for the last nine and a half years. And we didn’t go to a pastoral school. Because, when you arrive in Belgium, they place you to a pastoral school. But, it wasn’t the same for us. They send us directly to school. This is how we learnt French

What about your culture, your tradition, your music. Are you trying to keep them? Because, it’s been a lot of years since you left from Serbia.
Debora: Of course we are keeping our tradition alive. We didn’t forget it, because we are in Europe. There are people who forgot their tradition, but we want to keep it.

What about people here?
Jusuf: Just I didn’t speak about people. They are nice. If you are kind, they will be also kind to you

How do you feel a person who is free and a person who has an asylum? These are two things completely different for you? This difference changed your life a lot?
Slobodanka: yes, it’s really different.
Jusuf: Finally, we have a normal life. After eight years, we succeed to live in the Centre.